Botox injections pain


Posted by Helen McFadden , Mar 29,2001,16:56   Archive
Hi, fellow Blephs. I'm new to this page, though I've had Blepharospasm for a few years now, and took early retirement from my Elem teaching career because of it. I have a question about Botox injections. Mine work for six or seven weeks, and I'm VERY thankful for them, but I hate them too because I find them so intensely painful. Does everyone have this problem ? Am I more of a sissy than most? And most important, has anyone out there found a good way to deal with this?

I've tried an ice pack for ten minutes before having the shots, and I've tried the analgesic cream that's supposed to deaden sensation (it didn't).Aspirin is not an option because it encourages bleeding and bruising at the injection site. So what works??? I've just had my ten-week dose, so your replies will be ready for next time, I hope.

Cheers, H.




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Virginia , Mar 29,2001,17:05 Top of Thread Archive
Greetings Helen and welcome to the BB.

The botox injections don't bother me, so I can't speak directly to your situation, but I can tell you that you aren't alone. Others have experienced pain with theirs, too. One possibility is trying the Emla cream again, paying careful attention to the instructions that I'm sure someone here will post. Hang in there, the BB members have lots of experience with botox and you will most likely get some helpful advice.

Virginia in AL




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Re: Botox injections pain/Welcome Helen

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Mar 29,2001,17:10 Top of Thread Archive
Hi Helen,

Welcome to the bulletin board, sorry to hear you, too have blepharospasm. I have beb/meige. I took early retirement - eventually got disability from the University of Toronto - admin , not teaching, because of this disease.

I know others on this bb find the injections very painful as well - there have been discussions on it and perhaps you could do a search on the back posts. Emla cream helps some, but there is a particular way to put in on (described in the backposts), very heavy in the most painful spots (missing the eyes) and applied more than once 2 hours before the injections are given. The cream is covered by saran wrap as well. I find the injections are over and done with in less than 5 minutes and I can tolerate it ok. Its the after effects that I have problems with. I had the botox injections just over 2 weeks ago and I have intense pain, sinusitis and am very edgy and nervous for 3/4 weeks before things ease up. I usually go 4/5 though months before I need more injections.

I've also used Rescue Remedy - a natural solution made of flowers by Bach - produced in Cedar Hills, B.C. I find a few drops in water and sipped during the day, helps calm me before the injections.

Again, welcome to the bb and I hope you will get some answers to your questions.

June in Toronto, where it was supposed to snow a little today, but it was a nice grey day - about 5 deg C

--modified by June in Toronto at Thu, Mar 29, 2001, 17:45:12




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Lynn Yarbrough , Mar 29,2001,17:30 Top of Thread Archive
First, what causes the pain? Actually, it's not the needle insertion, but the fluid injection that hurts the most. The fluid fills the muscle tissue and the expansion of the tissue is what really hurts. What to do about it? First, ask the Dr. if he uses the recommended amount of solvent (normal saline) for the frozen Botox. Most do, but you can reduce the level of pain a lot by using less solvent. My Dr's have long ago started using 1/2 the recommended amount. Less volume, less pain.

Second, how to control the pain. Aspirin, Advil, and related blood-thinning pills are bad. Tylenol does not have that problem, and (prescription) Tylenol 3 with codiene works well. No, you mustn't drive with this stuff in you, but then you probably can't drive with BEB anyway. Take the codiene (if you're not allergic to it -- and DO NOT OVER DOSE) about 1/2 hour before your shots.

Again, the injection of fluid smarts, but it does not last more than about 15 seconds; there is no residual pain. My Dr. believes (and I agree) that the faster the procedure goes, the less discomfort, and he tries to get the whole procedure done, both eyes, 5 per eye, in about 20 seconds total. I've had Dr's who took extreme care, but IMHO quicker is better.

No matter what you do, aside from general anesthesia, the threat of the needle going into one of the most sensitive areas in your body is going to set off all sorts of alarms. I used to find every defense mechanism in my body going off, an effect which has quieted with experience. More than once I have felt like punching out the MD; actually, if you weren't consenting to the treatment, it would be classed as mayhem!

Take it easy - it won't last,

--- Lynn




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 29,2001,17:53 Top of Thread Archive
Hi Helen, Different people experience different amounts of pain with the injections from excruciating to minimal discomfort. Some doctors are better than others at giving the injections. Lynn has given you good advice. You are not a sissy. My injections usually don't bother me too much except for one spot. I do use the EMLA cream on that area. When I don't, it is hard not to come off the table. If you use the Emla cream, start about 2 hours before your injections and reapply it in layers every 15 minutes or so being careful not to get it in your eyes(easier said than done). You will have to know where the injections will be placed in order to get it on the right spots. Make sure that your doctor is using a 30 gauge needle, which is standard for giving botox injections. Also make sure that he or she is mixing it with preservative-free saline. If this is not done, that can cause extreme pain. Lynn's comments on the volume of solution injected is correct and your doctor might be able to make some modifications in that area. I also agree with him about using Tylenol or Tylenol with codeine (prescription) or something similar that does not contain aspirin.
I can't think of anything else right now. Unlike Lynn, I prefer that my injections be given a little slower. The first doctor that did my injection reminded me of a calf roping contest. He got started and was finished in approx. 20 seconds with both eyes. I expected him to throw his hands up in the air when he finished and check the clock to see if he had beat his record time. It overwhelmed me and I felt that he couldn't possibly be as precise as he needed to be. (and he wasn't)

Welcome to the bulletin board and ask whatever you like.

Shirley in AR.




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Sally - in - Idaho , Mar 29,2001,18:17 Top of Thread Archive
Welcome, Helen, to a place where we all wish we had no need to be. But this is a good place to hang out and share your frustrations and successes with BEB.

I have never used the EMLA cream, seems like more bother than it would be worth. My injections, either 5 or 6 around each eye (I can't remember!) are painful, but they are over with quite quickly and I am able to stifle the screams on all but one site on each side. My neurologist gets it over with in short order. Tylenol, taken about 1/2 hour before injections, does help a little. Maybe we should be given a silver bullet to bite on like in the old westerns. And they also made liberal use of whiskey, if I remember correctly!

Come back soon and often and tell us more about your self as you feel comfortable doing.

Sally in North Idaho where it's cold and blustery today.




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Sally - in - Idaho
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 29,2001,18:58 Top of Thread Archive
Oh Sally, I'm sorry but the alcohol is a blood thinner and therefore a no-no. The silver bullet, I'm sure, would be fine.

Shirley




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Sally - in - Idaho , Mar 29,2001,22:01 Top of Thread Archive
They didn't worry about that in those old cowboy movies when they had somebody stretched out across the kitchen table. The doc always handed him another sip of the bottle.

Sally




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Gail Grueneberg (gail grueneberg,Gail Grueneberg), Mar 29,2001,19:06 Top of Thread Archive
Hi Helen,
I am also new in this bb, but have seldom experienced much irritation with my shots. One thing you might ask your doctor is if he/she uses water without preservatives in preparing the toxin. My physician accidentially used water with preservatives for a few of her patients and they complained of extremely painful injections. After she switched to preservative free water the pain was much less. I have tried emla cream and found that it wasn't worth the bother. I am the area rep in Madison Wi and am always looking for ideas to share with our group.
Goodluck-Gail



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Delaine Inman , Mar 29,2001,20:48 Top of Thread Archive
Welcome to the group. Sorry you have such pain. The first few times I got Botox, tears streamed down my face and it was torture. Then I found out about the EMLA cream (from the BB no less) and finally started putting it on really thick with plastic gloves on at least 1 to 2 hours (found that out from the BB, too)before my appointment. I take a head band, to pull back my hair and I keep putting it on every few minutes until the shots are given. The doc uses a 30g needle, I ask whether it has been mixed with preservative free saline(found out that from the BB also) and then I practice my deep relaxation yoga(Belly)breathing. That has stopped the pain and tears for me. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but it has been a miracle worker for me. Good luck on finding something that works for you. Every good and helpful thing I learned about BEB, I learned on the BB. Keep coming back, I'm sure we can learn from you too.



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Re:I Learned it all from this bb

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Delaine Inman
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 29,2001,21:19 Top of Thread Archive
Delaine, You got me to thinking about all the things that I have learned over the past two years about BEB. I learned nothing from my first botox doctor except information that was not current and that I needed a caring and compassionate doctor and he wasn't one. I got my brochures and pamphlets and a few articles from the BEBRF which helped. But most of the things that I have learned have come from this bulletin board, the Main Pages and Dr. Perlmutter. The bulk of it came from right here from other people's experiences and all of us just discussing things. I learned about EMLA cream here, the size needle to be used, different medications to try, even though at least 3 different doctors told me that there were NO oral medications that would help BEB at all. I remember the day that I called the doctor's office crying and asked if there wasn't something that they could prescribe to help relieve the spasms and they told me that the doctor said that there was nothing, I would just have to wait until they could get me in for the botox. I guess that I did learn that many doctors know very little about how to treat BEB.
The good thing is that I continue to learn things from this bb. Things are constantly changing and if it is out there, this bb usually hears about it soon and then we all know and can talk about it.
This is the place to be.



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by kathy , Mar 30,2001,07:53 Top of Thread Archive
my injections hurt like holy hell and it's not getting any better. Next time i'm going to retry the Emla cream more thickly and ask for an additional painkiller. I'm tired of feeling like a gladiator every time.
On the upside , the Celebrex is keeping my frequent pain pretty well under control.



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Dan McNellis , Mar 30,2001,08:23 Top of Thread Archive
Hello Helen,

I use emla cream and I can't even feel the injections. It has to be used properly though. As indicated earlier, 1 to 2 hours before injections and applied thickly and often since it evaporates. Saran wrap may slow the evaporation. I don't use rubber gloves when I apply it and that hasn't been a problem. I have found that failure to use the cream as I indicated results in pain equal to not having used it at all. One other thing I didn't see mentioned is to ask your doctor to switch needles once or twice thru the process because the needle gets dull and results in a more painful injection.

good luck,

Dan




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Re:Changing Needles

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Dan McNellis
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 30,2001,22:25 Top of Thread Archive
Hi Dan,
The first doctor that gave me botox changed the needles in between doing each eye and he also changed needles after he drew up the botox as that needle had gone through the rubber stopper on the vial of botox. Since that time, I have changed physicians and this guy uses the same needle for all 12 to 13 injections. I used to tell people that it was important to change the needle, also, but I really can't tell that the needle has dulled even after the 13th injection. I have one spot that hurts, but he usually does that spot first. He is good at giving the injections and there is only minimal discomfort. I had a lot more discomfort with the doc that changed the needles out. My present doctor also puts a numbing drop in each eye and waits about 30 seconds and wipes all around my eyes with a couple of alcohol wipes. He uses the numbing drops so that the alcohol won't burn my eyes. My first doc never cleaned the area that he was going to inject.
A needle will occasionally have a "burr" on it and may be painful and that is certainly worth asking that the needle be changed.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just letting you know that I've had it done both ways and don't notice a dulling of the needle.

Shirley in AR.




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Re: Re:Changing Needles

Re : Re:Changing Needles --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Dan McNellis , Mar 31,2001,07:25 Top of Thread Archive
Thanks for the input Shirley!

Dan




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Re: Re:Changing Needles

Re : Re: Re:Changing Needles --- Dan McNellis
Posted by colleen , Mar 31,2001,18:44 Top of Thread Archive
My Doc. puts drops in my eyes & cleans all of the area that he injects.I can,t wear any makeup.Usually get 14-17 injections.The Doc.said he gets the headache just giving them all.
They don,t hurt to bad.

colleen



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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Re:Changing Needles --- colleen
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Apr 01,2001,07:25 Top of Thread Archive
I get 20 injections around the 2 eyes - others seem to get so few - I wonder what determines how many and whether more or less causes extra/less pain or the botox to work differently? My doc doesn't use a tracker needle - doesn't believe in them as feels they allow th botox to travel to the wrong places. Does anybody's doc use tracker needles? I don't find the injections too painful even though I seem to have quite a few compared to others.

June in Toronto




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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Delaine Inman , Apr 01,2001,10:05 Top of Thread Archive
My neuro/ophthal gave me 10 around each eye, where she was "taught" to give them and the exact amount each spot for a total of 25 units each eye. Because of this BB, I was able to get her educate her and get her to go outside the box so to speak. I educated her about the EMLA cream too. She was teachable and that was one thing I loved about her. Mon. I had Botox from a neuro doc here in my home town with my other docs blessing. She seems to be more up to date about where and how to give injections. She didn't give me 20 but she gave me a total of 65 units. She knows I've had ptosis twice from 2 other doctors and she kept explaining why she wasn't going to give it in certain places cause she didn't want it to migrate and cause ptosis and double vision. She didn't use EMLA with her patients(I of course was as numb as a board from having used it every few minutes for 2 hours). She remarked that she used a 30g needle and hadn't found that it helped. When I asked her how long ahead of time she had patients apply it, she said 20 minutes. I said, well no wonder it didn't help. After my injections, she remarked, you didn't even flinch. I said, that's because of the EMLA and she went, wow. I told her my other doc gave me a prescription and I told her what to tell her patients. So once again, like many others, she was very good at one thing and uninformed about the EMLA. I had no pain during or since the injections, no ptosis, no blurred vision, and no double vision. I did have low energy like I had the flu Mon that has gradually improved, that happens when I get Botox. My eyes have been better since Tue.(not without symptoms, but much better).



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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Joanne Matuzas , Apr 01,2001,10:17 Top of Thread Archive
June, when I was at my last support group meeting in San Diego, I got
busy asking others about the botox shots including number and location.
I spoke to one man who had been to 5 or so doctors--not totally by his
own choice but he did get schuffled around some. At any rate, one of
the doctors gave him close to 30 shots and he said that was the best
results he had obtained. All the other doctors did fewer shots (8 to
14 I guess). My opinion is that most doctors don't give a large number
of shots due to both time and the tolerance of the patient. (We all know how we love the shots, right Shanasy?) He is just one case but it would be useful to know re # of shots. I don't know about the tracker needles. I do think the doctor used a smaller needle during my last
round of shots although the pain has been not that bothersome to me
as well. Take care. Joanne M. CA



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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by edith nalepa , Apr 01,2001,13:28 Top of Thread Archive
Hello, I have been reading about" tracker needles", this is new to me, would someone please explain what they are? Edith in Fl.



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Re:June,, What is a Tracker Needle?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Apr 01,2001,14:12 Top of Thread Archive
June,
I have never heard of a Tracker needle. I don't know what it is or how it is used. Maybe this is a Canadian thing? Would you tell us about it?

Shirley in AR who doesn't know everything.




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Re: Re:June,, What is a Tracker Needle?

Re : Re:June,, What is a Tracker Needle? --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Delaine Inman , Apr 01,2001,18:16 Top of Thread Archive
Me either Shirley....what is it June?



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Re: What is a tracker needle?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Sally - in - Idaho , Apr 01,2001,18:29 Top of Thread Archive
What is a tracker needle/device? I've never heard of that before.

Thank.

Sally in North Idaho




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Re: TRACKER NEEDLE

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Apr 02,2001,00:36 Top of Thread Archive
I think I called it by its right name - tracker needle. I heard about it at the one and only BEBRF conference I went to (it was excellent) about 5-6 years ago in Columbus, Ohio. One of the U.S. doctors there spoke about using this kind of needle - it injects into one area but `tracks' to several areas - alleviating unecessary injections. My neurologist here in Canada won't use this method as he said its unpredictable as to where the botox actually is placed. I believe him and have great faith in him - he's top of his field and research in beb and very well respected and is an extremely kind and patient man.
Hope this explanation makes sense!

June in Toronto, where its 1.30 am here - I slept for 2 hours and am now wide awake - what's up!




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Re: TRACKER NEEDLE

Re : Re: TRACKER NEEDLE --- June in Toronto
Posted by Moderator-JB , Apr 03,2001,14:52 Top of Thread Archive
Nilda wanted me to post this message to the board.

"Dr. John A. Burns who is my doctor in Columbus uses the
"Tracking procedure", not a Tracker needle. I know he uses the 30 gauge
needle."

Nilda




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Re: TRACKER NEEDLE

Re : Re: TRACKER NEEDLE --- Moderator-JB
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Apr 03,2001,15:17 Top of Thread Archive
It sounds like we are just talking about physicians giving lots of injections close together (along a track, so-to-speak) with minute amounts of toxin instead of fewer injections in select spots where more toxin is administered at each site. Just a different technique that I'm sure works for some people. The same amount of toxin could be delivered both ways. I remember someone, a while back, posting that this had been done and that it had worked better than any injections she had ever gotten. I wonder who that was? Maybe, if they are reading, they will post or if anyone else has it done this way, it would be interesting to know exactly how it is done and if they get good results with this technique.

Shirley in AR?




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Re: TRACKER NEEDLE

Re : Re: TRACKER NEEDLE --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Apr 03,2001,17:46 Top of Thread Archive
Shirley, it was my understanding (which could be wrong!) that there were less injections, but it went into more sites - somehow it `tracked' the botox. I can't find my notes on that bebrf conference in Columbus, Ohio where a doctor talked about this method. As I said before, my neuro WON'T use this method as he doesn't believe its as efficient.

June in Toronto




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Re: units of botox

Re : Re: TRACKER NEEDLE --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Mindy , Apr 03,2001,20:50 Top of Thread Archive
I'm not the person Shirley was referring to.
I used to get 2.5 units in each site. 45 to 50 units total.
Mindy



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Re: TRACKER NEEDLE

Re : Re: TRACKER NEEDLE --- Moderator-JB
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Apr 03,2001,17:47 Top of Thread Archive
Any chance of getting Dr. John A.Burns to describe more fully how this works?

June in Toronto




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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Kelly Saffell , Apr 02,2001,10:23 Top of Thread Archive
I get approx 20 injections total and 100 units every 8 weeks. My doctor gives several of the injections in the same spots each time but then he has me squeeze and customizes them to where I need them most. One of my "trouble spots" is the the area between my eyebrows. I feel like it is always pulling down between my eyes. You actually have 3 different muscles in that one area so he injects all three muscles on each side and that has worked wonders! I also have a problem with my nose spasming. I have Meige as well and there is a nerve connecting the nose to the throat. When me nose spasms it makes my throat spasm immediately after so he injects on both sides of the bridge of my nose. My injections don't feel good but the pain is not unbearable. He also changes needles 2-3 times during my shots. I was injected by a neurologist one time and the pain was unbearable. It was my first time and my husband and I both sat in the car and cried for 20 minutes afterwards. I had just had natural child birth 9 months earlier and didn't think anything could hurt that bad - I was wrong!



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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Bob Gardner , Apr 02,2001,12:58 Top of Thread Archive
I only get two injections in each eyelid and one in each brow, which works well for me. I also get two in each cheek for the facial movement. These are done without the EMG. The injections I get in my neck are done with the EMG because the neck is a much larger area and it's important to locate the areas with the most abnormal activity.

Bob Gardner




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Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device?

Re : Re: Number of Needles and Tracker Device? --- June in Toronto
Posted by Judi in NC , Apr 10,2001,15:04 Top of Thread Archive
I must be extremely lucky or something. I've had Botox twice - once last July 3rd and then again in early March this year. I had no pain with either of the sessions. I don't use EMLA for my eyelids. I do use it for the neck shots though for Cervical Torticollis.



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Dan McNellis
Posted by kathy , Apr 02,2001,09:57 Top of Thread Archive
thanks Dan, for teaching us how to use this better.



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Shanasy in IL , Mar 30,2001,08:34 Top of Thread Archive
Hi Helen,

Most people told me it didn't hurt that bad when I first got them. Then I found out it was worst than my worst nightmare! After the first shot, I wanted to die before the the other 9 went it. They were all as bad as the first. Afterwards, I cried hysterically in the car (and I'm the type that NEVER cries!). I have very low pain-tolerance! (The nurse even put the EMLA cream on for me - which had no effect at all - of course she put it on very thin and didn't leave it on long enough - but what does she care?)

So for the next time, I found an "improved" EMLA cream called ELA-MAX cream. I PUT IT ON MYSELF THICK AND HEAVY. (I think it works better and faster) I reapplied it many times and had it on about 45 min. before appt. I also (ut oh... Shirley's gonna be mad at me) took 3 mg of Lorezapam 45 min before too. I think it is a relaxant. I only weigh 95lbs and I know it was probably a bit too much for my size, but it blew me away enough that I don't much remember the whole incident. And let me tell ya...by not remembering much of the incident SURE makes it less stressful for the next time. I am not really recommending this, because I know it was not smart to do, but I preferred to forget the experience. My botox day was yesterday. Glad the nightmare is over. I do usually feel effects begin to wear off starting 2 weeks, but it works fairly well for about 1 1/2 - 2 months.

Shanasy, waiting for a well-deserved "wrath of Shirley" She's gonna be spittin nails at me - and she should! I am scum! lol!




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Re: Wrath from Shirley re Overdosing Oneself

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Shanasy in IL
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 30,2001,11:52 Top of Thread Archive
Shanasy, Shanasy, Shanasy, you-you Puddinhead. What am I going to do with you? We must get this worked out. 2 to 4 mg is used for pre-operative sedation. Just because 3mg worked for you once and now twice, I hear, doesn't mean that you should keep on doing this. Why don't you try a lower dose-say 1mg. You know that the injections hurt as badly as they did that first time because the doctor used saline with preservatives in it. She will never do that again-I hope. Now, repeat after me- I will only take 1mg of lorazepam the next time I get my injections. It will still relax me but I will be aware of my surroundings.
I can see right now that I'm going to have to watch you and keep track of when your injections are coming up.
So, did you miss lunch again, too, with your husband?

Shirley in AR. thinking that Shanasy is not going to listen to me this time, either. Problem child, she is.




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Re: "Shirley's Wrath"

Re : Re: Wrath from Shirley re Overdosing Oneself --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Shanasy in IL , Mar 30,2001,19:47 Top of Thread Archive
I could hear your words even before you said them. thank you for caring. I DID plan to cut down. I planned to just take 1 2mg pill, but as i was just minutes away from the "needle" I chickened out and took another half (1 mg) pill. I even thought of you, my big sis looking out for me and probably dissappointed in me. I could see you shake your head at me.

About that lunch, well my sister-in-law went with me - I'll have to ask her how it went I DON'T EVEN KNOW! I do know I came home and went to bed and slept for 15 hours straight. I am ashamed of myself! Problem child...that's me!




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Re: "Shirley's Wrath"

Re : Re: "Shirley's Wrath" --- Shanasy in IL
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 30,2001,20:44 Top of Thread Archive
Shanasy, I am still shaking my head at you. I will have to search your room and take all your drugs away from you. Joanne M and I are going to have to do the Tough Love thing with you. I think that I will bring in Delaine on this, too. (if we can get her out of her closet looking at all her blue T-shirts, sweatshirts, caps and visors.

Shirley in AR. You slept for FIFTEEN HOURS?




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Shanasy's fear/mirrors a lot of our fear

Re : Re: "Shirley's Wrath" --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
Posted by Delaine Inman , Mar 31,2001,07:53 Top of Thread Archive
I'll be out of the closet and there when ever you do the tough-love-intervention thing. Shannasy! You know the first torture with Botox put the fear there, along with what was already there. It's the same fear we all had or have when we go in to get Botox. But like Lynn said so well, we've got to drive that fear out, but not by making ourselves unconscious from over dosing and coming close to suicide! YOU of all people know what a temple your body is and you are so careful about eating healthy! Girl, we have got to get you through this next time in a different way, understand??? You don't have to love getting the Botox, but we've got to help you get over this fear, cause some of it is a bit distorted. Preservatives in your Saline...remember... that was real and probably the worst thing that nobody should ever have to experience and we all learned a lesson from your painful and justifiable fearful ordeal.....but that was then and this is now and you don't have to be tortured anymore. A little sedation to take off the edge(maybe?), the cream for sure(as already described how it must be used or it is worthless, someone to hold your hand and remind you to breathe, 30g needles, tell them to change them if you want...mine doesn't except after she draws up the medication with a larger needle and then changes to 30g....but what ever it takes we are going to get you through this next time in a safer way, OOKKKKKK????



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Re: Shanasy's livid fear of botox pain

Re : Shanasy's fear/mirrors a lot of our fear --- Delaine Inman
Posted by Shanasy in IL , Mar 31,2001,19:14 Top of Thread Archive
No words could ever thank you enough for caring so very much. I just love you guys to pieces! I wish so bad I could take you girls to my botox shot sessions - then I KNOW I could be strong. I KNOW you are ALL right about what you said - I know I overdosed it. I had to call my sister--in-law (who took me) to ask her how it went. I guess the Dr. doesn't have a clue what i do to myself in preparation for the fear of the pain. I know my family and my husband love me and care for me, but at least in THIS instance, I don't feel near the love or caring that I feel from you all. You bring tears to my eyes (and the ONLY other thing in life that makes ME cry is BOTOX!) Your words of encouragement will be kept in mind and I will tell you all my next botox schedule when I get it. You can lecture me beFOREhand and keep me strong. And anyone who wants to email me their phone # I may even call for the "personal" encouragement (I get free phone calls from my husband's cell phone sometimes). Thanks again. (Delaine, Shirley & Dee I agree with EVERYthing you said - thank you)



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Fear of pain

Re : Re: Shanasy's livid fear of botox pain --- Shanasy in IL
Posted by Moderator-JB , Apr 01,2001,13:44 Top of Thread Archive
Shanasy:

You are not alone in your fear of pain. Dentists have long been a real problem for me. Shaking in the waiting room, sitting board stiff in the chair anticipating the injections and then the actual procedures. Hate those little pointy pick tools!!!

At times in my life when I've experienced severe pain I begin to hyperventilate. Truthfully, I don't do any pain well.

At your next shot session, close your eyes and picture each of us (our keyboards dangling from our wrists) standing there with you.

You are never alone,

Judy




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Re: Thanks

Re : Fear of pain --- Moderator-JB
Posted by Shanasy in IL , Apr 02,2001,07:28 Top of Thread Archive
Thanks for your kind words on encouragement. Here's a quote that is applicable JUST FOR YOU (you may have heard it before) but I thought it was a beautiful quote!

"Never rescue faster than your angels can fly"

Love it, don't you!?
Shanasy




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Re: Fear of pain

Re : Fear of pain --- Moderator-JB
Posted by kathy , Apr 02,2001,09:12 Top of Thread Archive
that's a pretty good visual to focus on. maybe i'll try that too.



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Re: Fear of pain

Re : Fear of pain --- Moderator-JB
Posted by Carol Thoma , Apr 03,2001,11:26 Top of Thread Archive
Judy's suggestion is a good one. Do whatever works to get your mind off the botox shots. Fear contracts the muscles and intensifies the pain, so anything that reduces the fear will make the pain less intense. It's sort of like natural childbirth; women who tense up and scream make it worse for themselves; those who can relax as much as possible and "go with" the contractions don't have nearly as hard a time. Or think about a shot in the arm and how much harder it is for the nurse or doctor to insert the needle if the muscle is tense. In the dentist's office, too, I tell myself that I'm not afraid, and then I close my eyes and think about something that I enjoy or someone that I love. Headphones playing soft music help, too. Maybe your doctor will let you try that at your next botox session. Of course the pain isn't ALL in your mind, but your mental state affects your physical state and that in turn affects the intensity of the pain. I hope this helps!

Good luck.
Carol




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Re: Fear of pain

Re : Re: Fear of pain --- Carol Thoma
Posted by kathy , Apr 04,2001,11:03 Top of Thread Archive
i actually had that idea many years ago but did not want to associate it with pain.



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Shanasy in IL
Posted by Joanne Matuzas , Mar 30,2001,12:32 Top of Thread Archive
Now Shanasy, Shirley is a nurse and knows what she is talking about--
not to mention she is a blefro as are the rest of us. Relaxed, not
spaced is the goal. I had to take something when I had my MRI(although there was no pain involved there) and I was just relaxed, very relaxed. Maybe you can think about compromising with 1-1/2 pills? If you have been that spaced out, I am surprised the doctor has not said anything about it.
Please be careful so we don't get overly concerned about what we can
control!! :<)
By the way, are you still missing Tiffany? I miss my golden, Beau but
am slowly adjusting. It is so quiet in my house now. His memory is keeping me. Joanne M. San Diego, CA



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Joanne Matuzas
Posted by Sally - in - Idaho , Mar 30,2001,18:41 Top of Thread Archive
Shanasy & Joanne ... I hope you both "adopt" again soon. You have so much love to share with a furry friend and there are so many out there who need a loving home.

Sally




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Re: Dogs

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Joanne Matuzas
Posted by Shanasy in IL , Mar 30,2001,19:54 Top of Thread Archive
Thanks for caring Joanne. I appreciate it. Yes I still miss Tiffy terribly. I did just 2 days ago adopt a very needy resuced yorkie. She's 3 and has an ugly past. I felt I had to be there for her. She is a wonderful companion so far. She is in no way a repalcement for Tiffy, however she fills a nice place in my heart. I hope you too will soon allow yourself the love of another animal in your heart. There are so many that need it. If i can help you find just want you are looking for, let me know - I have alot of "rescue resources" of dogs desparate for someone to love them. She just have to get to them before they are put to sleep needlessly.

Hugs & Dog Germs!
Shanasy




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Shanasy in IL
Posted by Pam Brockwell , Apr 03,2001,20:39 Top of Thread Archive
I have not had a final diagnosis yet. All I can hope for after reading all your messages on pain is that I do not have to have Botox. I had a very bad experience last year while having some skin cancers removed from my face. I am very fearful of injections and may decide to run away and hide, never to be seen again if Botox is mentioned. I see a Neurologist on April 23rd. My problem is with only one eye so the general feeling is that I do not have Beph. Hemifacial Spasm is another condition mentioned to me.

You all seem so brave and getting with your lives despite everything.

Cheers

from Pam way down under in New Zealand where we have had our first taste of winter - yuck?




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Pam Brockwell
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), Apr 03,2001,21:26 Top of Thread Archive
Pam, please don't worry about the pain YOU MIGHT HAVE if given botox injections. My pain from the injections is minimal - its all over and down with in less than a minute and, for me, certainly not as bad as going to the dentist! I just find (and I believe I'm a little unusual in this) that the side effects are worse. Yesterday and today I don't have any blurring of vision, finally - its been 4 weeks tomorrow that I had the injections.

June in Toronto where we had our first taste of spring today!




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Pam Brockwell
Posted by kathy , Apr 04,2001,11:08 Top of Thread Archive
my daughter just returned from a 6 month work /visit program and said she absolutely loved the people and had never met anyone like them. she has just gotten a job here in the U.S. as a nurse but says she is definitely not through with New Zealand.



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THANKS FOR THE REPLIES

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- kathy
Posted by Pam Brockwell (pam Brockwell,Pam Brockwell), Apr 04,2001,16:18 Top of Thread Archive

I am not going to focus on the negatives here. I will have to wait and see as I may not need Botox at all. The side effects seem to vary so much too.

I am not surprised that your daughter enjoyed her time here in NZ Kathy.

Like the rest of the world we have our share of problems but thats life. I hope your daughter does get the chance to come back one day. Maybe her mum will come for a visit too.

Cheers

Pam from NZ where winter is definitely on the way.




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Pam Brockwell
Posted by Rosemary McGhar , Apr 05,2001,15:42 Top of Thread Archive
Pam, I too was scared to death prior to my first Bo-Tox injections. Let me honestly tell you they were not bad. No worse than the sting you feel when plucking an eyerow. I have had two different doctors administer the injections and they felt the same. If necessary, I would go through this every day. I don't dread them at all now.

Rosemary




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Pam Brockwell
Posted by penny , Apr 05,2001,16:29 Top of Thread Archive
Pam, I've suffered 5 or 6 years with my eyes staying closed and was so happy that I finally found a dr. that knew what I have.This was 2 weeks ago, March. 21 and n 2 minutes he told me what I had, gave me a brochure on botox and said read this, I'll return in 10 minutes. I did and he did and he gave me about 8 injections around my eyes and I've not had a spasm since. I've not felt like a human being in years but do now and I am being honest when I say they didn't hurt. I could feel them and there was a brief stab of pain and then it was gone, but not on all injections, only some of them. Of course no one can promise you they won't be painful but I'm betting they won't. If they work it will certainly be worth it. I'm going to pray for you , penny in oklahoma city, ok



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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Gina Moe , Mar 30,2001,11:15 Top of Thread Archive
Welcome Helen,
Luckily my botox injections last (usually) up to 6 months, so I don't have to concern myself about the pain very often. Maybe I also have a high pain tolerance, because just gritting my teeth will get me through the procedure.

Since moving to New Mexico almost a year ago, I have flown back to Washington to have my neuro there give me the shots. It's time I find a good neuro here and THAT'S what scares me!

Good luck with all the excellent advice you've been given by everyone here.

Take care,
Gina in N.M. where we had a HUGE rain/thunder and lightening storm last night and the dogs cowered while I reveled in it!!




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Re: Botox injections pain

Re : Botox injections pain --- Helen McFadden
Posted by Dee in OR (Dee L.,Dee in OR), Mar 30,2001,22:24 Top of Thread Archive
Welcome Helen,

I get my shots every 2 months and I have used Emla Cream both times and it seemed to work pretty good. But I also have a very high pain tolerance. I just moved to Oregon from California and I still fly down to San Francisco to get my botox shots. I am waiting to get into the VA system here in Portland so I can get the shots here closer to home. I also asked the Resident giving the shots if she would use a 30 guage needle (is that right Shirley?) and she said "no problem, whatever you want." She did ask me why and I told her about the BEB BB and that other people recommended it and she was very accomodating. I haven't had much pain either time except between the eye brows.

Dee in OR




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Re: Needle size

Re : Re: Botox injections pain --- Dee in OR
Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , Mar 30,2001,22:33 Top of Thread Archive
Dee, Your right. 30 gauge is the standard size recommended for giving botox. This is smaller than the needle that diabetics use for their insulin. Those shots between the brows used to hurt me, too, when my first botox doctor gave them to me. He injected them deeper he said as it was a big muscle. I switched doctors and they don't hurt, anymore.

Shirley in AR.




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