BLOOD THINNERS


Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), May 13,2002,20:49   Archive
We know not to take blood thinners at least a week before having Botox injections and in this week's Chatelaine magazine there was a list of them - some I don't understand, so perhaps our nurses can tell us about the ones marked with an *

ginkgo biloba
warfarin*
heparin*
Aspirin
Plavix*
Trental*
policosanol*
phosphatidylserine*
vitamin E

Th article went on to say that Garlic should not be combined with these `other' blood thinners (as above) - so is garlic (in powdered form/capsule) a blood thinner also? Personally, I stop taking vitamin E and aspirin before botox injections, but now may have to include other things! Thanks for any information anyone can provide.

June in Toronto (beb/meige)




Recommend Current pageAuthor Profile
Replies to this message


Re: BLOOD THINNERS

Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
Posted by MaryNY , May 13,2002,20:56 Top of Thread Archive
June - I'm aware that you shouldn't take blood thinners, but I don't know why you shouldn't take Vitamin E, which I've seen on the BB before. I take it every day, including when I go for Botox, and it doesn't seem to cause any harm. Mary



Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
Re: BLOOD THINNERS

Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- MaryNY
Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), May 13,2002,21:31 Top of Thread Archive
I didn't think (also) that vitamin E was a blood thinner, but apparently it is - I've been told that it is by people on this bb and from the magazine article I quoted. Perhaps for some people taking these medications/vitamins before botox injections won't hurt - but for those that get bruising and bleed after their botox injections, stopping blood thinners is perhaps a good idea. We'll see what others have tosay.

June in Toronto




Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
Re: BLOOD THINNERS/vitamin E

Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
Posted by Kathy in Atlanta (kathy,Kathy in Atlanta), May 14,2002,05:54 Top of Thread Archive
I think they are referring to large amounts of vit. E, for instance 6oo units a day is kind of high.

--modified by Kathy in Atlanta at Tue, May 14, 2002, 05:55:30




Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
Re: BLOOD THINNERS/vitamin E

Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS/vitamin E --- Kathy in Atlanta
Posted by Virginia , May 14,2002,08:09 Top of Thread Archive
I take 800 IU a day and don't stop for injections. I don't notice that it has caused bleeding problems.



Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
  • Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- Evelyn ( May 13, 21:51, 2002 ) Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by June in Toronto (June Floyd,June in Toronto), May 13,2002,22:16 Top of Thread Archive
    I trust this link will take you to the article on GARLIC in the Chatelaine Magazine, June 2002 issue.

    June in Toronto

    Related link: http://www.chatelaine.com/health/read/article.jsp?cid=970971




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by Lynn Yarbrough , May 13,2002,22:45 Top of Thread Archive
    I can offer clarification and my own experience with some of these. As you may recall, I had a minor stroke last Dec and am currently taking Cumadin (AKA warfarin, see above) as well as aspirin, and have also taken Plavix, all puncuated with Botox shots. (I know little about the others.) These are the major drugs to speed the flow of blood. They don't all work the same way: Cumadin really thins the blood out, while aspirin/plavix prevent plaque from forming.

    However, my Neoro-opth. gave me the Botox shots without hesitation. Apparentlly the thinning effect has little to do with external coagulation or with Botox dispersion, so there appears to be little effect of the thinners on the shots. At least he didn't give it a second thought, and I saw little effect -- maybe a bit more bleeding, but nothing significant.

    IMHO, don't worry about it.

    --- Lynn




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- Lynn Yarbrough
    Posted by Alan Phair , May 14,2002,14:51 Top of Thread Archive
    Lynn, do you actually take Coumadin and Aspirin together? I am not a Doctor but I always though that to be a very dangerous combination. Obviously your system is such that it can tolerate it and needs that much thinning of the blood. I am sure that your Doctor knows what he is doing but I was just surprised when I heard you say that. You may have remembered my saying a few times that when I first was involved in the development of the computerized Pharmacy Sytem many years ago, the number one interaction listed by the three reference books (Goodman/Gilman) (U.S.P.) (Blue book) we used listed that combination as the worse one. They probably have come up with new evidence since those days (late 70's)....Alan



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Aspirin

    Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- Alan Phair
    Posted by Lynn Yarbrough , May 15,2002,17:15 Top of Thread Archive
    You are right in general about aspirin. My MD has prescribed Baby aspirin (81 mg) which is used to keep the platelets moving. For pain relief (e.g. injections) I take extra strength Tylenol, which is NOT a blood thinner. Tuning the meds has been a challenge!

    --- Lynn




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: Aspirin

    Re : Aspirin --- Lynn Yarbrough
    Posted by Alan Phair , May 16,2002,12:38 Top of Thread Archive
    Lynn, at least now I feel a little better. Baby Aspirin is obviously a lot less potent than full strength regular aspirin. The Tylenol which is acetamonophen does not cause the reaction that aspirin generally will when taken with Coumadin...Alan



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: Aspirin

    Re : Aspirin --- Lynn Yarbrough
    Posted by Delaine Inman , May 17,2002,22:03 Top of Thread Archive
    81 mg of ASA is a miracle drug. Studies show it takes just that much on a daily basis to prevent infammation and clot formation to help prevent stroke, heart attacks and other blood clots. In case of a heart attack or stroke it is the first thing the ER or paramedics/emts' give. Should be kept in the medicine cabinet and first aide kit. If it is taken on a daily basis with coumadin the dosage is adjusted by monitoring the blood. ASA with blood thinners should still always be ordered by the doctor.



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: Aspirin

    Re : Re: Aspirin --- Delaine Inman
    Posted by Alan Phair , May 18,2002,14:56 Top of Thread Archive
    Boy Delaine, I haven't heard the term ASA in a long time. I am not even sure how it is spelled any longer. Is it Acetesalicilic Acid?

    Alan, where it was 82 degrees yesterday when I planted my annuals and snowing today with a couple of inches on the ground today....




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by Delaine Inman , May 13,2002,23:13 Top of Thread Archive
    Any herb or Vitamin which improves circulation affects the platelets which cause the blood to clot. Aspirin, Plavix, Trental and some others actually make the platelets less sticky and prevent clotting especially in cases where an artery is blocked or partially blocked. They are ordered after procedures where the blockages have been opened after heart attack or stroke. Warfarin is Coumadin which is an oral form of anti-clotting which actually thins the blood and like Heparin which is given intravenously at first and then injection must be monitored very carefully to adjust the dosage while in the hospital and after discharge. People with heart valve replacements or anyone who has had a blood clot anywhere in their body are treated with these drugs, sometimes for life and others for long periods of time. Too much Vitamin K which is found in many foods affect blood clotting as well. Anyone on blood thinners or anti-clotting medication needs diet instruction to know these foods. It doesn't mean you can't eat them at all (which patients are often told). You just have to eat the same amount everyday to keep the blood levels the same or the dosage of the medication needs to be adjusted. I'm not familar with the other two.



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by Alan Phair , May 14,2002,14:41 Top of Thread Archive
    June, I have never been told not to take Blood thinners prior to having my Botox Injections. Granted, I occasionally might get a little bleeding from an injection but I don't ever get any major flowing. Just for the heck of it, I will ask my Dr. what he thinks. I do know that you can't take any before the Myectomy operation but that is common sense as you don't take any before any operation that I know of unless for some reason they want your blood thinned out. I don't take any vitamins or over the counter meds besides my Prescriptions so I wouldn't have a problem anyway. I would be interested to see if others were told not to take the thinners....Alan



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- Alan Phair
    Posted by Sally - in - Idaho , May 14,2002,22:36 Top of Thread Archive
    Alan, I take Ticlid as a blood thinner and have been told by both my PCP and the neurologist to discontinue taking it a week-ten days before injections. Once that procedure was instigated, the bruising has been much less and there is very little bleeding at the injection sites. One time when I forgot to stop the Ticlid, the bleeding above my eyebrows was quite intense and the doctor said he would have to give the injections much lower on the face and farther out from the eyes in order to prevent bleeding and bruising.

    incidentally, my 85-year-old mother is on Coumadin for congestive heart failure and the first thing any pharmacist, EMT, phlebotomist, whatever, warns her of is to NEVER take aspirin.

    Sally in North Idaho




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , May 14,2002,20:30 Top of Thread Archive
    The question about the use of blood thinners and their causing bleeding problems at the time of injections came up at last year's conference. If I remember correctly, the consensus was that no one should stop a prescription blood thinner for the injections. The doctor that answered the question said that he did have patients on prescription blood thinners for one reason or another and did not have them stop them. Occasionally a little more bleeding than usual would occur but it was not a major problem and one just had to apply pressure to the site for a little longer.
    I think that one would have to stop the blood thinners for approximately 2 weeks to get them entirely out of your system. Most people that are on prescription blood thinners are on them for a reason and getting the injections wouldn't warrent stopping them.
    The above non prescription medications or supplements can also cause a little extra bleeding or bruising but shouldn't cause a major problem. Over the counter non-steroidal anti-inflammatory meds like Advil and Aleve can also cause a little extra bleeding.

    I think that the main thing to know is to be aware that these drugs can cause more bleeding and bruising and let your BOTOX doctor know that you are taking them and don't stop a prescription blood thinner without your physician authorizing you to do so.

    Shirley in Arkansas




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS/anti inflammatories

    Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
    Posted by Kathy in Atlanta (kathy,Kathy in Atlanta), May 15,2002,11:17 Top of Thread Archive
    Would that apply to the Celebrex as well?



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: Celebrex

    Re : Re: BLOOD THINNERS/anti inflammatories --- Kathy in Atlanta
    Posted by Shirley-Arkansas-USA , May 15,2002,13:14 Top of Thread Archive
    Kathy, I found the below information at www.rxlist.com :
    This suggests that there is not a problem with bleeding tendencies with Celebrex like there is with Advil (ibuprofen).
    Shirley


    "Platelets: In clinical trials, CELEBREX at single doses up to 800 mg and multiple doses of 600 mg BID for up to 7 days duration (higher than recommended therapeutic doses) had no effect on platelet aggregation and bleeding time. Comparators (naproxen 500 mg BID, ibuprofen 800 mg TID, diclofenac 75 mg BID) significantly reduced platelet aggregation and prolonged bleeding time."






    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: Celebrex

    Re : Re: Celebrex --- Shirley-Arkansas-USA
    Posted by Kathy in Atlanta (kathy,Kathy in Atlanta), May 16,2002,11:00 Top of Thread Archive
    thanks.



    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile
    Re: BLOOD THINNERS

    Re : BLOOD THINNERS --- June in Toronto
    Posted by Lyn Patterson , May 14,2002,20:35 Top of Thread Archive
    Hi June

    Warfarin is taken by people who have artificial aortic valves, such as my husband. He also takes Plavix sometimes. Heparin is used in hospitals - if he has to have an operation, he comes off Warfarin a few days before and goes into hospital and is put on Heparin . When he comes home, he goes back on Warfarin. Aspirin is often given as a precautionary measure to people who have heart problems, bypasses etc. Am not a medical person - this is from my personal experience of my husband's condition - he had a triple by-pass and aortic valve replacement.

    Lyn

    --modified by Lyn Patterson at Tue, May 14, 2002, 20:36:43




    Recommend Original Message Top of Thread Where am I? Current pageAuthor Profile